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the whistleblower
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Thu, 18 September 08 12:42 GMT
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<<Are we going to get to the stage when the lineout is formed when the referee says "Lineout formed" and we can allow QTs any time before that? >>
Dan, this is how it is at the higher reaches, with appointed ARs. The AR holds up his flag to signal touch, and only points the arm once the QT is no longer possible. Where the TJ cannot be expected to perform that function, I see no harm in the ref telling the players the lineout has formed. He'll do it later by bringing back the QT anyway.
This message edited on Thu, 18 September 08 by the whistleblower
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Whistleblower |
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pauldg
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Thu, 18 September 08 09:58 GMT
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>Are we going to get to the stage when the lineout is formed when the referee says "Lineout formed" and we can allow QTs any time before that?
Taking a QT "on the off chance" isn't penalisable so there's no harm in giving it a go if the tactical situation is right.
(Unless the ref ends up with the impression you're time wasting, obviously.)
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PaulDG |
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Dan Cottrell
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Thu, 18 September 08 09:42 GMT
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Are we going to get to the stage when the lineout is formed when the referee says "Lineout formed" and we can allow QTs any time before that?
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didds
- scrumtime@hotmail.com
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Thu, 18 September 08 09:36 GMT
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Dan's question raises an interesting thought (and probably where he was going...).
ball into touch, red awarded throw.
blue "rush" to lineout but red - whilst not exactly acting slothlike - walk towards the lineout.
Thrower has hands on ball, red still walking. Red winger, though sprinting hard receives a quick throw in
* ball goes over 5m line
* there are not 2 red players in "the lineout"
* there is no red feceiver >2m from the LoT.
Of course this could have been done prior to now - but now of course the ball can be passed/thrown backwards away from the LoT thus "ensuring" the ball is won. (possibly with some space to attack, whilst blue are off guard _ they shouldn;t be presuming - possibly with a mismatch of fast winger versus lumbering fornt fives etc.
?????????/
didds
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ob
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Wed, 17 September 08 12:27 GMT
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1) QT. There is no obligation on the defence to rush to form a lineout, so there is rarely a conflict between delay, and taking a quick throw-in.
2) Here is the wording of the ELV:
Player between touch and five metres. The team not throwing in must have a player standing between the touch line and the 5-metre line on that team's side of the line of touch when the lineout is formed. That player must stand at least 2 metres from the five metres line.
My understanding is that the aim is to prevent him from lifting the front man in his line and thus having an advantage over the other team.
The definitions in Law 19 also talk of this player as an "immediate opponent" who is "participating in the lineout". He cannot be that if he is more than 10 metres back.
In practical terms, as pauldg says, at least 1 metre from the line of touch so as not to interfere with throw or be offside, and at most 8 metres so as to be clearly NOT among the "backs".
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sam skennel
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Wed, 17 September 08 10:41 GMT
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I thought he had to be 2m from LoT and from teh 5m line. Certainly that's what is being implemented.
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pauldg
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Wed, 17 September 08 09:55 GMT
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>1. Quick lineout: no lineout formed unless 2 players from each side have made up the lineout. When as a referee do you call the lineout formed. The throwing in side might never bring two players to the lineout and so there is a limbo in which a quick throw in could take place.
Failure to form a lineout can be penalised by a FK. If the limbo is too long, warn then ping.
>2. In the ELV law, there must be someone in the 5m channel, 2m away min from front of lineout. Where can he stand in the channel "up and down" the pitch. In other words could he be 20m back or does he need to be within a certain distance.
The point of this Law is to prevent the non putting in side being always able to outnumber the putting in side so in one sense it doesn't matter where the opposing hooker stands.
But the only interpretation that makes sense from the IRB guide (unless the RFU publishes something to the contrary) is that that player must be part of the lineout - so he's got to be forward of the 10m offside line for backs.
Practically, then, between 1m and, say, 8m from the line of touch.
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PaulDG |
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Dan Cottrell
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Wed, 17 September 08 09:08 GMT
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1. Quick lineout: no lineout formed unless 2 players from each side have made up the lineout. When as a referee do you call the lineout formed. The throwing in side might never bring two players to the lineout and so there is a limbo in which a quick throw in could take place.
2. In the ELV law, there must be someone in the 5m channel, 2m away min from front of lineout. Where can he stand in the channel "up and down" the pitch. In other words could he be 20m back or does he need to be within a certain distance.
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