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therugbycoach
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Wed, 05 June 02 20:07 GMT
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I played rugby in both codes and up to national 1 level,for 34 yrs i have also coached for quite a few years have level 2 senior, coached children and ladies up to county level, hold a teaching degree in phys ed. done so many courses ive forgotten how many,
so im less able to be a top coach than anyone else?????
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keith holmes
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Wed, 29 May 02 08:08 GMT
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GDAY, I AM FROM AUSTRALIA AND I HAVE BEEN READING YOUR COMMENTS REGARDING COACHES AND I WOULD LIKE TO put AN AUSTRALIAN PERSPECTIVE ON WHY COACHES ARE FLOCKING TO THE U.K AND THAT IS OPPORTUNITIES AND MONEY.iN AUSTRALIA THERE ARE 4 HIGH PAID POSTIONS AND THAT IS NATIONAL COACH,AND THE 3 SUPER 12 TEAMS AND THAT IS IT. THE SYDNEY CLUB SCENE IS SEMI PROFESSIONAL AND MOST CLUBS CANNOT AFFORD A FULL TIME COACH,SO THE POSITIONS ARE PARTIME.Also by coaching in the U.K the dollar exchange rate against the pound is nearly 3aussie dollars to 1 pound.
The emphisis on coaches going to England in particular is based on who they are most wallabies who have finished playing go straight into coaching positions in the U.K before they have had any coaching experience or proven themselves and this is crazy.SO in effect you guys have made your own rod for your own back by employing great explayers who are most probably dud coaches.keith
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dave larham
- dave.larham@wasps.co.uk
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Fri, 17 May 02 14:45 GMT
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Scrumsrus,
I did actually single out players that are renowned decision makers within the current set-up. It must be easier for the current crop to go in to coaching after the amount of quality coaching they have received, seen or been a part of. I also think their understanding of the game would be far superior to the average coach. The RFU have recognised this by 'fast-tracking' many of the ex-players through the system.
While I agree with the well known fact that a good player doesn't always make a good coach, I do think they will go on to achieve credibility in coaching.
How many junior rugby playing coaches go on to coach at a senior level?
Anyway, back to the subject, just look at how many players are now coming across, let alone coaches!
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scorpheus
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Sun, 12 May 02 09:07 GMT
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Scrumsrus
Just an addendum to my previous note...
Where current top class players are good is in the "coaching-in-game play" situations, of lesser players.
What these guys DO know from pure experience (not coaching ability) is what works and what doesn't in key game situations, cos they've been there many times before.
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scorpheus
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Sun, 12 May 02 09:03 GMT
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Stavros
You don't qualify your remarks but trust me, it's not bullshxt when every couple of months you have to plan/coach-out the consequences of inadequate Prem 1 club coaching.
Scrumsrus - Yr note on "players coaching"........Oh, how right you are!
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scrumsrus
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Sat, 11 May 02 21:44 GMT
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Dave,
"In 10 years we will perhaps see the likes of Johnson, Dallaglio, Greenwood etc all in key coaching and management positions within our game."
Do not think that just because these guys are good players that they will be good coaches and managers.
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stavros
- stavrospopadopolos@hotmail.com
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Sat, 11 May 02 01:26 GMT
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Scorphy this is below you its a diatribe of BullsXXt
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dave larham
- dave.larham@wasps.co.uk
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Wed, 01 May 02 11:41 GMT
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We've got to stop agreeing!
You are absolutely right, but it's worrying all the same.
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scorpheus
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Mon, 29 April 02 19:44 GMT
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Dave
S'got something to do with money!
If you've been earning £75,000 to £100,000 p.a., as a coach in the UK, why would you uproot your family to go to the SH to earn £50,000/£60,000 p.a..
Also think that not too many UK coaches would be considered good enough to get a similar job in Aus/NZ.
I still think there are a lot of moderate coaches in the UK Premiership, who have got away with it cos the senior players kind of coach everyone.
Actually, in my experience as a coach, coaching at a top level Club, anywhere, is 50% coaching/motivating ability & 50% arranging to sign the right balance of the right players.
I still say that "There's one thing ALL SUCCESSFUL coaches have in common...... AWESOME PLAYERS!"
This is why teams promoted from National 1 to Premier 1 always struggle.
Even Leeds have only been able to recruit two awesome players. Hence, they are struggling.
Coaching alone, ain't enough.
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dave larham
- dave.larham@wasps.co.uk
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Fri, 26 April 02 11:59 GMT
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Your concerns continue. Saracens have just appointed Buck Shelford. A very good coach who helped transform Northampton during his spell there as a player, but our clubs are still looking elsewhere for coaches! This will continue until we catch up. Do you think that the clubs are under pressure to sign a 'big name' as a coach, as opposed to employing an English coach who isn't steeped in international glory? In 10 years we will perhaps see the likes of Johnson, Dallaglio, Greenwood etc all in key coaching and management positions within our game. This will counter the balance and strengthen us with home-grown and developed resources.
This message edited on Fri, 26 April 02 by Dave Larham
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dave larham
- dave.larham@wasps.co.uk
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Wed, 17 April 02 14:26 GMT
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I believe the SH coaches were desperately needed at the time because of the lack of quality within our own structure. However, I think that their lifespan will be limited once we have learned from them. The whole ethos surrounding coaching in Britain has been slow compared to the SH, therefore we can learn quickly from their welcomed input.
On the flip-side, how many British coaches have been successful in the SH? John Mitchell, although a NZ, did ply his trade over here before coaching the Chiefs and then NZ. But how many others? Why is this? Is it a coincidence that the neither of the Coaching Development Heads are English (Evan Crawford - NZ, and Kevin Bowring - Wales)?
This message edited on Wed, 17 April 02 by Dave Larham
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scorpheus
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Tue, 26 March 02 07:15 GMT
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therugbycoach
OK. S'pose in a way, it's a fair cop.
In my experience, many so-called top UK coaches are really NOT very good and especially not very aware.
Think the real difficulty, from what I've seen in the UK, is that all the guys currently at the top of the coaching pile NEED to protect their livelihoods, so THE VERY LAST thing they need is a smart young coach rising rapidly up the ladder from the ranks.
Inspite of the RFUs highly commendable efforts to coach coaches, THIS is what stops 'rising' coaches from "rising"!
Then when the current top coaches fail to deliver, the only promotable choices are those from other countries(who may even have historically failed at home).
This livelihood v ego thing is just huge. So much so that when working with a top int'l side, I found that much of the comment on what I did from the few similar rank coaches around was mostly negative, presumably to protect and strengthen their own egos/positions in the hierachy.
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therugbycoach
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Sun, 10 March 02 16:47 GMT
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why are we drifting down the football road by over paying and overpraising coaches specially overseas coaches, wales are the obvious starters, how much did they pay for GH no doubt has a proven record, till he went to wales, how many other ex SH players have suddenly become premiership team coaches and failed to deliver. what happens to British coaches who have coached youth teams built up to senior local teams but because of geographical locations never get noticed by the big boys, why cant they do the job of a ex kiwi.???
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