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callump
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Thu, 25 September 08 11:04 GMT
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IMHO the SoR is an RFU funded initiative, organised by the CB - which may use a club (with an academy) to deliver the SoR.
So whilst there might be a player expectation to progress to a club's academy, i don't think there is any obligations either way.
/c
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barry1957
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Wed, 24 September 08 22:58 GMT
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I don't know the answer to this. However, my 14 yr old reckons not.
He thinks that at Under 15 level no particular SofR has a 'right' to keep that lad at their particular affiliated Academy, or indeed claim any form of compensation should he move Academies. He feels that this WOULD be the case once the player reaches Academy level/age (this would take effect at 18 wouldn't it?).
I'm not sure if he has this on good authority or not, or if he's just assuming to be honest.
I know that when he was at Leicester City Football Club (Dev. Centre) from around 7-11yrs yrs old, the Club reckoned that he had effectively 'signed-on', and we were led to believe that if, in the future, he were to sign Professional forms with any other Club, then Leicester would have some form of recompense as a result. That's what we were led to believe anyway. Although someone might very well argue my points.
Interesting question though whistleblower.
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the whistleblower
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Tue, 23 September 08 10:36 GMT
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Congratulations are in order.
Assuming a Premiership Academy is involved in the coaching element of SoR, does anyone know whether that gives the Academy some form of right over the players being developed in that Academy? In my area, there are two Premiership Academies within 10 miles of each other, coaching their SoR players (different counties) at venues 3 miles apart. If player A goes through the SoR until having to make a choice as to which Academy to sign for, and opts for the one that did not help the SoR to develop him, does the SoR Academy have any right to compensation for player poaching? The player would ahve been a member of a junior club, quite likely affiliated to one or other of the Elite clubs.
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Whistleblower |
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barry1957
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Thu, 18 September 08 23:48 GMT
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On a personal note, my lad has just recieved an email congratulating him on being retained at the SofR again this season.
As I said previously, they have cut the numbers down from around 36 to 11. So he's done well. County trials again next month.
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barry1957
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Tue, 02 September 08 08:08 GMT
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I have heard of this although I neither fully understand nor agree to be honest.
I guess this particular Dad, like you say, has done his homework and feels that his Son is better off at a different SofR. Maybe the pathway seems more direct toward a specific Academy?
Personally I can't wait for my Son's next session as they are going to massively cut the numbers, and were keen to see if he can continue.
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the whistleblower
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Sun, 31 August 08 13:45 GMT
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One of my players has just gained access to the SoR of a neighbouring county, in which he neither resides, goes to school nor plays for a club. I thought the idea was that players had to attend their own county's SoR? The player's father, who can be relied on to have done his homework, claims to have RFU approval for this, facilitated by the neighbouring county's Elite club academy.
Doesn't this just set us off down the road to larger academies cherry-picking players from their driveable vicinity, to the detriment of smaller counties?
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Whistleblower |
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barry1957
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Tue, 29 April 08 20:12 GMT
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I agree with Nicknell. My lad is a 10, and although we realised that the SofR is not about positions, the lady taking the register did ask what positions they play. Some really good lads that play with my son didn't make it, so again, like Nicknell stated - GET NOTICED! Tell him to be vocal and communicative, after all, if hes 9 or 10, he shouldn't be a shrinking violet.
My son has loads of work to do on his defence (typical 10!), and he needs to quicken up slightly, but one thing he has got is a good brain and good command of his backs and forwards. He's talking to them constantly!
It's difficult for the Assessors with so many lads on view, so he really does have to catch the eye.
However, should he get missed, you will recieve a score card and you will see by how many he 'missed the cut' so to speak. Areas can then be worked on for next time. I have to say (and no doubt Assessors will hate me for this) that lads who missed the cut by the odd mark have been invited back for re-assessment by the Coaches.
Assessors realise that lads will slip through the net, but generally their adage is that if you're good enough, you'll be found.
Good luck to your lad, tell him not to get too hung up about it all (or you!) and show 'em what he's made of!! And NO MESSING AROUND!!
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Andysoddshapeball
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Tue, 29 April 08 18:37 GMT
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Thanks Nick
Most helpful
As long as he doesn't have to keep practicing his tackling on me (lol), we should be able to work on any deficiencies.
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nicknell
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Tue, 29 April 08 07:23 GMT
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SoR is non-position specific, but maybe your son could state his preference as a "9 or 10"?
There are 3 facets to the SoR curriculum; handling, contact and tackling.
The assessors will be looking for the lads who stand out, so if your son has a long accurate pass or a devastating sidestep or a booming tackle, he needs to make sure that the assessors see it.
The assessments should be game sensed, so there should be lots of opportunities to see the players in exercises that look like a real game such as 5v2's and touch rugby.
Maybe you could ask the lead coach what's on the agenda?
For what it's worth, in my view if a youngster has the vision to use the players around him, can accurately pass a decent distance off both hands, can beat a man 1v1 with a combination of pace, power and agility, retain possession in contact and make almost 100% of his tackles on either shoulder he's in with a very good chance of being invited back.
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Andysoddshapeball
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Mon, 28 April 08 22:52 GMT
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Any advice please
In regard to CB trials.
My Son has his first (U13s) in June.
Is he asked to put forward a perfered position at this age (he plays Flyhalf, but would make a very stong scrumhalf in my opinion)?
Any skill or abillity that he should be working on, to make him stand out?
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the whistleblower
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Thu, 10 April 08 19:49 GMT
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Personally, I would view any form of representative rugby at U.13 as folly. 1st year of 15-a-side, they've still got a lot to learn about the game. Additionally, not all players in this age group have even hit puberty yet. I coach an U.13 side, and we've been trouncing sides that have traditionally given us a good game, because half their players are playing with the same body shapes they had last year, whereas all of ours are 7-10cm taller and considerably heavier and bulkier. I see no value in settling on a representative side until a) the players have had a chance to understand the game and its tactics; and b) all players are physically on a level playing field (i.e. have undergone puberty).
I guess we all know that selection in the past has tended not to be dynamic - you select once, and perhaps tinker with your less successful selections - but if you missed a really good player, he stands a fair chance of staying missed. SoR's commitment to continuous assessment looks like a good way of changing this for the better, but it needs to be given a chance.
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Whistleblower |
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didds
- scrumtime@hotmail.com
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Thu, 10 April 08 10:12 GMT
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too add to Nicknell's piece, another year at U13 would further stretch the reources available (ef coaches, managers etc). There seems to be some commonly held belief that there is a some pot of RFU super coaches that can just be whislted up whenever they are needed. It just isn't true; w/out being involved at all in SoR I have been until recently involved with county setups and its clear that there are not sufficient coaches about of a level that makes the process worthwhile at times. Stretchuing those that are of a suitable level is no way forward for anyway.
Purely IMO and IME naturally. YMMV.
didds
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nicknell
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Wed, 09 April 08 16:31 GMT
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Which would achieve what? Oh yes, the players would get a shirt and a tie a year sooner, and they might win a match against another county. So what? Would it make them better players in the long term or would it simply be another set of training sessions and matches driven by an egomaniac coach?
The system was overhauled just over a year ago when SoR started and if people buy in to it, it's a perfectly transparent and progressive system - with the emphasis on player progression from club and school, through county to EPDG and beyond.
We shouldn't be modelling anything on anyone - least of all Wales - we're in a position to lead the rest.
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JosJj2$8#
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Wed, 09 April 08 16:10 GMT
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I think most people involved in grassroot development in England would agree that the entire system need and overhaul, e.g we could model our selves on wales where representational rugby can be achieved at 13.
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barry1957
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Wed, 09 April 08 08:17 GMT
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I take your point Nickel, but any site will never be visited by people that 'can't be bothered'. And these aren't the viewers that it would be aimed for.
How many posts have we read by people who can't find information on this initiative. It's not the Managers and Coaches it would be aimed at - it's the mums, dads and lads that could glean this info.
A central site would be good to see how other CB SofR's are progressing. If the Coaches can't be bothered then they shouldn't be there! Anyway, it's good to discuss.
Our CB also has some 'smaller' lads.
Although we were told that if we knew of any six foot 15 stone under 14's, that can run the 100m in less that 11 seconds, to let them know!! (Tongue in cheek I'm sure, but it does give an indication how size is becoming an important factor).
At last weeks session, our lads had a chat on Nutrition (based on pre, during and post matches), very informative for them. They also had to better their first score for sit-ups and press-ups. I have to say that they all seem to be really enjoying it at the moment, but they do realise that it's continual assessment and numbers will shortly have to be cut.
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nicknell
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Wed, 09 April 08 07:14 GMT
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Barry
What difference would a shiny new SoR website make? There are 28 CB SoRs with funding to run 48 SoR centes or satellites. How many of those managers and coaches read these pages?
The communication is only as good as the input and we've already seen and heard that too many people can't be bothered to communicate the right message.
A more meaningful solution would be for the RFU to appoint an SoR national manager rather than to dump it on the CDOs as at present.
With regard to SoRs only picking six footers, I can assure you that this hasn't been my experience. I've seen plenty of smaller kids (and not just 9s) at the centres I've visited.
This message edited on Wed, 09 April 08 by nicknell
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Andysoddshapeball
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Tue, 08 April 08 23:39 GMT
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Forgive my bemusment, but why are SoR coaches apparently talent spotting only 6ft plus boys?
Have they never heard of -
Jason Robinson
Austin Healy
George Gregan
Shane Williams
and all the great short players before them.
The last thing our game needs is to become professional basketball with contact.
In my opinion, youth club rugby, is always at a far greater standard than school rugby (no comparison). This is where talent spotters should be, not at some fee paying schools in house match. Or trying to poach boys from other sports.
The SoR's should be aiming to support and improve the potential athletes that are already coming through from our Mini sections.
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barry1957
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Tue, 08 April 08 20:06 GMT
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Like I said............SPECIFIC SofR WEBSITE NEEDED!
Surely there's a Rugby-minded Web Designer out there.
Once we've got the main site up-and-running, the various CB's could nominate individuals to populate for their various age groups. I really do reckon this would work.
At our local Rugby Club, we have a main site and the mini and Junior section have administrators who are given access to their particular age group to add news, pictures etc. It works really well and saves some poor sole the job of trying to populate it on his/her own.
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the whistleblower
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Tue, 08 April 08 16:37 GMT
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As a Berkshire U.13 coach as well as a Society ref, I have heard nothing about Berkshire's SoR plans. I have looked on the internet, but can find no reference to a Berkshire SoR. If the county is engaging in this initiative, ity is keeping it very hush-hush.
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Whistleblower |
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imhilton
- Imhilton@aol.com
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Mon, 07 April 08 14:36 GMT
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May I ask one simple question.
Every CB does have a list of all it's registered youth players from every club.
Would it be prudent to notify every lad directly via mail with some simple key points and reference to internet material? That way there is no argument of who got and did not get the info. or message.
Remember, this is the first year and it appears there will be improvements throughout.
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barry1957
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Mon, 07 April 08 13:07 GMT
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When I was initially trying to find out about the SofR I, like others, searched the Internet.
As I've stated previously, the SofR got up-and-running at various times in different regions. Some regions have very good websites. Maybe we could have a main SofR website that can be broken down into the various parts of the Country and information can be uploaded onto the relevant section of the site giving all manor of details. Coaches and Managers from the SofR could post on here and Parents, Guardians and Players can glean up-to-date info and announcements from this main site. Saves loads of e-mails flying around, although it does obviously place the emphasis on the reader to take the time to view, and indeed have the necessary equipment.
I do realise that this is an ideal that might be unfeasible due to time, skill and funding, but I do think it's a good idea. Hey, I wish I knew more about web design and the likes, as I'd offer my services right away.
I do know that Warwickshire have it in their plans to introduce a website, and I have offered my services to video sessions for the lads and Coaches for them to view and to maybe upload images of sessions onto this new site in the future.
It would also give future aspiring 'trialists' an insight as to what goes on at a SofR.
Any thoughts?
This message edited on Mon, 07 April 08 by barry1957
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milligani
- iandmilligan@btinternet.com
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Mon, 07 April 08 11:16 GMT
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weakone,
We are back to the first part of the whole problem - the communication. This has, it seems, been addressed in our CB so all clubs know what is happening and when and in turn cascade this internally so no coaches are in the dark.
I would really hope that no coach is intentionally kept in the dark in any CB as it's not the coaches or indeed the clubs this is about - it is the opportunity for young players to be the best they can be and if people stand in the way of that then there is something very wrong indeed there.
As I said I can only comment on my CB and IMHO they have got it right and the bit which has supported all the other aspects is the fact they have addressed the communication.
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Spike |
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weakone
- slfaithfull@aol.com
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Sat, 05 April 08 20:51 GMT
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Spike
Meetings are fine, provided you get to hear about thhem!! The issue stemmed because some many did not know about the change to SOR and it's process. Ignorance is no defence, but are we to victimise and isolate those kids that play for coaches that were kept in the dark.
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milligani
- iandmilligan@btinternet.com
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Fri, 04 April 08 15:59 GMT
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I'm sure that should be the way Rugby First works but if you have a look at any club details on their rugby first pages the range in data input from club to club is huge. For some even finding a contact for the mini section is impossible. This might be due to the fact it is set to club officers (and higher) only but I very much doubt it.
Rugby First should allow such communication but until all clubs fully utilise it this would again only get the message to a percentage of the audience. Managing the message in meetings at start / during the season / face to face is still the most effective way of dealing with issues IMHO as well as setting the standards and processes which are used. Emails are fine but easily ignored or missed or mis-read.
I would maybe suggest that where a SoR has worked well 'best practise' is then shared out across other CBs. Sorry if this sounds a bit like day job speak to some but surely we should apply some of what we do professionally to our hobby.
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Spike |
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weakone
- slfaithfull@aol.com
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Fri, 04 April 08 10:11 GMT
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Gary- I am impressed you have responded and you are prepared to action some change. May I offer one small piece of opinion. Although difficult on resources, I believe that every CB and RDO (maybe even CDO)should have the email address of every youth coach (from U12's who enter the following year) from every club. Regardless if they are the yeargroup lead coach or assistant. Also, regardless if they nominate a lad or not. Can this not be channeled in conjunction with Sport England (for funding). Then there is no excuse for no one person who is involved not to be aware of any changes in the future.
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