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Timothy J
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Fri, 26 January 07 17:20 GMT
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I think its a good thing.
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imhilton
- Imhilton@aol.com
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Tue, 23 January 07 17:55 GMT
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Nicknell, or even any other folk with broader experience!
I know it depends on each CB. But what are the likely chances that any level 2 coaches who may opt to try and volunteer their time. Are likely to receive mentoring (by acadamy coaches) to help them gain possible level 3 knowledge/ability.
I think that this scheme sounds like it may even help lift the profile of many aspiring youth coaches. Provided we are given the opportunity. Or even considered.
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nicknell
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Tue, 23 January 07 15:17 GMT
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Some of the current EPDC coaches might go up to EPDG, leaving a gap that the CB can fill with it's own elite coaches.
My experience has not been one of academies moaning about player pathways, but rather of them monopolising the players. I read this week that Martyn Thomas said that the elite players below a certain age (U20?) are playing too little meaningful rugby.
Whose fault is that?
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hicksy
- rhicks@rutc.ac.uk
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Tue, 23 January 07 14:19 GMT
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All along the Academies have bemoaned the lack of control over the elite player development pathways, sometimes conflicting with the schools and clubs.
It will be obvious that the with the demise of the EPDC that those coaches then drop down and lead coach an age group, become involved with the TiD and then feed onto the EPDG. Thus the Academy gets the contact time with players increased, more gifted playersd are given access to better coaching, and the County system is still used as a means of developing and identifying late developers.
This should be a win/win.
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Hicksy |
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morgan1994
- rhicks@rutc.ac.uk
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Tue, 23 January 07 14:19 GMT
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All along the Academies have bemoaned the lack of control over the elite player development pathways, sometimes conflicting with the schools and clubs.
It will be obvious that the with the demise of the EPDC that those coaches then drop down and lead coach an age group, become involved with the TiD and then feed onto the EPDG. Thus the Academy gets the contact time with players increased, more gifted playersd are given access to better coaching, and the County system is still used as a means of developing and identifying late developers.
This should be a win/win.
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Hicksy |
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nicknell
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Tue, 23 January 07 10:11 GMT
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The academies of senior clubs take a very few players of a certain age only.
SoR will replace the current EPDC structure (sometimes wrongly referred to as "academies") with a view to feeding players into the genuine academies, much the same as at present.
It's my understanding that each SoR will take up to 25 players at each age grade from 13-16 (about 100 players in total). At 15/16, the premiership clubs will invite any players of the right standard to join their EPDG (up to a dozen players?) with a view to selecting the most able candidates to join the academy proper.
The benefits to the CBs and the community game are significant, not least in terms of player id and development, but maybe more importantly, coach id and development.
The player pathway will remain almost unchanged. For a 12/13 year old, it's currently:
Club/school
sub county/county
EPDC
CB
Region
England
The new pathway will be
club/school
SoR (or satellite)
sub county/county
CB
EPDG
England
The only major change is in the ownership of the project, and I'm all in favour of it being owned by "us" (the CB and community game) rather "them" (the premiership clubs) because we'll get better coaches and player id/development/management throughout our local game rather than simply for the benefit of the one player each season that makes it to the top.
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northy
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Mon, 22 January 07 16:05 GMT
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But the notes quite clearly state that "they replace CB Development squads" and go on to say that other players can be drafted in if a match is to be played.
Th principle is great but the practicalities of implementation have not really been thought through
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the whistleblower
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Mon, 22 January 07 12:18 GMT
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Interesting programme.
Where a CB has in its area the academy of a professional club, might we expect that the academy's membership would monopolise the places in the CB school of rugby, as the academy has already creamed off the best players in its locality? Or would the SoR ignore the academies, secure in the knowledge that they are already trying to develop talent capable of playing 1st class rugby, and focus on the late developers or those the academy has missed?
The latter approach would have the benefit of doubling the effort to develop elite players; the former would risk duplication of effort. Does anyone know what would be the intention here?
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Whistleblower |
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nicknell
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Sat, 20 January 07 08:18 GMT
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SoR replaces the current EPDC structure, which by it's very nature is elitist. The implementation notes for SoR reinfirces the message thatit's aimed at elite players only.
I would hope that the existing county (and sub-county) structures could be retained.
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erinmitchell123
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Mon, 15 January 07 13:44 GMT
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In reply to most recent post from nicknall:
Your suggestion is correct in that SoR coaches will very possibly be (but not required to be) members of clubs and/or schools, and that they will act independantly when coaching at the SoR.
Regards,
Erin Mitchell
RFU
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milligani
- iandmilligan@btinternet.com
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Mon, 15 January 07 12:43 GMT
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Agree with Nick on this. I know he knows where I'm coming from in our CB and we have talked off line about it.
Thanks for the reply Erin was appreciated.
Spike
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Spike |
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nicknell
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Mon, 15 January 07 10:40 GMT
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Erin
We might be arguing over semantics here, but I suggest that the SoR coaches will act independently and without bias when representing SoR, but they will all be members of rugby clubs and will be largely dependent on those clubs in order to retain their coaching credibility and competence.
I interpreted Spike's question as asking "will the SoR coaches have interests at other local clubs, or will they only represent SoR?"
Spike and I are members of adjacent clubs and we represent the same CB, and I think we have a pretty good idea as to which coaches will express an interest in becoming involved in our SoR. Those coaches will have, and will retain, significant interests and responsibilities at their clubs.
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erinmitchell123
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Mon, 15 January 07 09:29 GMT
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In response to milligani's last post:
Ian,
Yes, you are right in assuming that the SoR coaches will be independent from clubs. SoR coaches may also coach at schools or clubs, the selection process will endeavour to find the best coaches available.
There is no requirement for them to exclusively coach a SoR. As mentioned in the Implementation Guide, SoR coaches will not be paid.
We will be updating the Implementation Guide to reflect this, after we have gathered some further amendments, probably some time in February.
Kind regards,
Erin Mitchell
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nicknell
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Sat, 13 January 07 14:33 GMT
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Spike
We're not keeping anyone in our CB in the dark, but until I saw the document on the website yesterday, nothing had been officially confirmed to me. I may have a couple of answers to your questions (and my own opinions, which as you know I'm alway shappy to share!)
I would hope to retain our sub county age grade structure while providing the opportunity for the more able players from within those squads to progress through the CB SoR and beyond, much as they do at present through EPDC.
If SoR means that we lose what we currently have, then it's a backward step for the many talented youngsters that currently enjoy the challenge of our sub county structure, particularly those who are competent "county" players but may not have either the ability or the desire to progress further.
Subject to confirmation at a couple of meetings at the end of Jan and into early Feb, I would hope to be in a position to announce the selection process for SoR coaches within ECRU in a month or so.
Given that the document that started this thread shows that we'll have a SoR and 2 satellites, we'll need a lot of coaches. Our 3 sub county coaching reps have already been tasked with identifying and contacting suitable candidates - I reckon we're looking for over 60 coaches!
We'll invite applications from suitably qualified coaches and make selections as outlined in the Impementation Guidance Booklet. It's likely that the coaches involved in SoR and the satellites will not be independent as I think you understand it, but will retain their involvements with their "home" clubs, much as I would if I was to become involved in SoR. Without this level of regular involvement, they would be unlikely to achieve the qualificactions and experience required.
I'll do my best to keep you posted - probably off-line from now on as it's quicler and easier!
Nick
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milligani
- iandmilligan@btinternet.com
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Fri, 12 January 07 21:24 GMT
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Erin,
Thanks for this. Your reply and Nick's make a much clearer picture.
From what you indicate do we assume the SoR coaches will be independent from clubs?
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Spike |
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erinmitchell123
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Fri, 12 January 07 17:03 GMT
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In reply to milligani's query:
CB Schools of Rugby will replace the current county development squads. Also, CB SoR are intended for the elite and therefore the best 15-25 players per age group who demonstrate the potential to go on and play at the highest level.
Trials should only be for nominated athletes and the nomination process will come from schools, clubs, community rugby coaches and regional academy staff, therefore, SoR coaches will be ideal as "scouts" as they will see a large amount of age grade rugby in clubs and schools.
Erin Mitchell
RFU
This message edited on Fri, 12 January 07 by erinmitchell123
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erinmitchell123
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Fri, 12 January 07 16:57 GMT
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In reply to nicknell's query:
With regards to your first question, yes today's U12 players will be nominated in March 2007 and up to an assessment day to be arranged within the CB to start the SoR in September 2007.
The U13s going into U14s next year will follow a similar nomination process.
Erin Mitchell
RFU
This message edited on Fri, 12 January 07 by erinmitchell123
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milligani
- iandmilligan@btinternet.com
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Fri, 12 January 07 15:55 GMT
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Nick,
A fine and valid point sir and one which I had overlooked totally.
Thanks
Spike
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Spike |
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nicknell
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Fri, 12 January 07 15:32 GMT
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Spike
Bear in mind that our current "county" squads are in fact "sub county" squads.
Nick
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nicknell
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Fri, 12 January 07 13:56 GMT
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Page 10 says that "in March a letter and nomination form is sent"...
Does this mean that today's U12 players will be nominated in March 2007 and subsequently invited to an assessment day so that they start at SoR in Sept 2007?
Or will the suitably talented players be identified during their U13 season as at present?
This message edited on Fri, 12 January 07 by nicknell
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milligani
- iandmilligan@btinternet.com
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Fri, 12 January 07 13:29 GMT
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Having read the document it seems to be a sensible idea.
However, the question I have relates to the county squads and what happens to the ones already in place.
I would assume that whilst the squads are made up to a team covering all positions how are decisions going to be made and players identified who up to this point haven't been part of the squad. It would seem that large scale trials would be an opinion or alternatively wide scale 'scouting' from the SoR coaches which as they are normally involved in age groups at local clubs in the first instance is unlikely.
The idea as I said sounds ok it's just the initial implementation.
This are obviously just initial thoughts and hopefully a kick off point for some discussions as I have to admit I have yet to get the to dizzy heights of youth rugby (that pleasure awaits me at the start of next season).
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Spike |
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garethlewis
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Thu, 11 January 07 15:23 GMT
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Apologies, I've added a link to the article in the previous post.
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nuref
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Thu, 11 January 07 15:16 GMT
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I didn't see a document. Is there a link?
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Improving every game |
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garethlewis
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Thu, 11 January 07 14:20 GMT
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Please feel free to comment or pose questions in this thread regarding the recent CB Schools of Rugby article on the community website (see link below).
http://www.community-rugby.com/communi tyrugby/index.cfm?fuseaction=Home.Story&StoryTypeId=108&Sec tionId=821&StoryId=15629
This message edited on Thu, 11 January 07 by garethlewis
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