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the whistleblower
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Thu, 24 April 08 16:13 GMT
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And equally to the point, RFU insurance is provided for organisations acting under RFU regulations. The organisers may not be insured by deviating from the regulations, and perhaps the same is true of your own club (or possibly you personally as coaches) for exposing the children in your care to an event that you know deviates from the RFU's safety arrangements.
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Whistleblower |
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pauldg
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Thu, 24 April 08 14:50 GMT
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A little more to the point:
9.1.2 Matches are limited to the following durations:
(a) Under 7 and Under 8:
• Fixture (2 Clubs or Schools are present): 10 minutes each way, 1 game = 20 minutes
• Fixture (3 Clubs or Schools are present): 7 minutes each way, 2 games = 30 minutes
• Festival: 5 minutes each way, maximum of 5 games = 50 minutes
(b) Under 9 and Under 10:
• Fixture (2 Clubs or Schools are present): 15 minutes each way, 1 game = 30 minutes
• Fixture (3 Clubs or Schools are present): 10 minutes each way, 2 games = 40 minutes
• Festival: 6 minutes each way, maximum of 5 games = 60 minutes
(c) Under 11 and Under 12:
• Fixture (2 Clubs or Schools are present): 20 minutes each way, 1 game = 40 minutes
• Fixture (3 Clubs or Schools are present): 15 minutes each way, 2 games = 60 minutes
• Festival: 7 minutes each way, maximum of 5 games = 70 minutes
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PaulDG |
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jdzamosc
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Thu, 24 April 08 13:45 GMT
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Gerard
2007/2008 Continuum Reg 9.2 Sessions
"Festivals, fixtures, coaching and training sessions (including time devoted to match play) must last no longer than the following:"
(a) Under 7 and Under 8: 60 minutes;
(b) Under 9 and Under 10: 90 minutes;
(c) Under 11 and Under 12: 120 minutes.
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JD |
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pauldg
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Thu, 17 April 08 16:35 GMT
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Contact the festival organiser, and if no joy your regional CB NOW. If that sill doesn't work go to Andrew Rogers at Twickenham. (Phone number on this site, just search for him.)
>Is the Continuum so out of touch on this and other areas (e.g 5 game limit at tournaments, contact training for U8's) that it needs a major overhaul?.
We've been told categorically that it will not get one. The people who developed it like it the way it is.
>Or is it the case that without any policing and enforcement, human nature kicks in and a minority, will try and get away with bending the rules they don't agree with, safe in the knowledge they probably won't be found out?
A bit of that but mostly because the people who set up these tournaments don't actually *read* the regulations. They "inherit" "local interpretations" from the members of the club who dreamt up the first festival regs for the first festival they held a few years ago. Sometimes these *festival* regs get embellished a bit in the interests of "fairness" - but again without anyone actually *reading the RFU regulations*.
More than anything else this is a *training* issue - but it's one the RFU doesn't appear to have the resources to deal with...
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PaulDG |
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Green101
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Thu, 17 April 08 14:47 GMT
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Looking at this and other threads, the level of "bending" the continuum rules seems to be widespread. Two additions to throw into the ring:
A)
Taken from the Festival rules for an upcoming tournament for U7-U12 age groups.
FESTIVAL RULES 2008
1. The Laws of the game 2007/8 will apply as laid down in the Rules of the Continuum.
So far so good......then we find a bit further down the list....
6. No extra time will be played apart from the semi finals or finals.
7. In the event of a draw in either the semi final or final a maximum of 5 minutes each way extra time will be played. The winner will be the first side to score any points i.e. Sudden Death. If after extra time the scores are still equal the criteria for league ties i.e. a count back to the league stages as at 5 above will be used to decide the winner of the match/festival.
B)
At a recent festival the Continuum rules on NO extra time were clearly laid out in the program and in the briefings on the day. Later on, a final was tied at 0-0 at the final whistle. The two teams (and referee) then decided between themselves to play extra time. The organisers, who quickly realised what was going on, moved in to stop the game and declare the final a tie.
Is the Continuum so out of touch on this and other areas (e.g 5 game limit at tournaments, contact training for U8's) that it needs a major overhaul?. Or is it the case that without any policing and enforcement, human nature kicks in and a minority, will try and get away with bending the rules they don't agree with, safe in the knowledge they probably won't be found out?
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gerard_jenkins
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Mon, 25 February 08 15:28 GMT
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I consider myself to be a responsible coach and referee and I have read and do refer to the Ctm. I take a copy with me every Sunday just in case. But I'm obviously not keeping up with all the changes. I get more "CPD" on these forums than via the RFU and am continually being educated but some really knowledgable people on her. Thanks. (This is sincere just in case).
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Gerard Jenkins |
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pauldg
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Mon, 25 February 08 13:06 GMT
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>Agree and understand the extra time in "full" matches but we are talking about festivals and the Ctm allows for up to 60 mins of contact rugby, if teams have travelled for up to 45 mins for 2 x 14 min games if there is a draw, playing an extra 5 mins will still be well within the 60 mins and will likely produce a more equitable result than the toss of a coin.
No, the Continuum does not allow for 60 minutes of contact rugby. Apparently it once did but *now* it specifies the length of games that can be played (as, as usual, the 60 minute limit was abused).
But, according to the Continuum, for U11/U12, two 15 minute each way matches can be played at a triangular - which is what your "finals weekend" effectively is.
So in that case, yes, I agree with you "extra time" is allowed - but only because you've not played full 15 minute halves in the first place.
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PaulDG |
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gerard_jenkins
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Mon, 25 February 08 12:20 GMT
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Quickly typing while I wind my neck back in......
Yes the pools and finals are played over two separate weekends.
Agree 100% there are worst things but by assuming the format of the festival we attend and what I've said you're assuming the festival organisers and I by my suggestion are being irresponsible. We are not.
Agree and understand the extra time in "full" matches but we are talking about festivals and the Ctm allows for up to 60 mins of contact rugby, if teams have travelled for up to 45 mins for 2 x 14 min games if there is a draw, playing an extra 5 mins will still be well within the 60 mins and will likely produce a more equitable result than the toss of a coin.
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Gerard Jenkins |
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didds
- scrumtime@hotmail.com
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Mon, 25 February 08 11:40 GMT
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possibly in Gerard's neck of the woods the semi-finals and finals are held on a deifferent day to the pool matches.
Hence the timings.
I would suggest this scenario is not one that was considered when the regs were first drafted.
didds
This message edited on Mon, 25 February 08 by didds
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pauldg
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Mon, 25 February 08 11:35 GMT
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>In our neck of the woods the semi's and finals add up to 28 mins of rugby, 32 mins short 60mins in ctm.
So there are only 2 matches played in the entire festival? That's usually called a "triangular".
(Are you forgetting the time spent in the heats? Or are those on a different weekend?)
>If there is a draw why not play extra time?
Because the IRB bans extra time for U19 matches in the Laws of the Game and the RFU bans extra time in Junior & Continuum matches.
>The ctm allows for this flexibility (IMHO).
You must have a different copy to the one on this website. It says:
"9.1.2 No extra time is permitted in any match except that added for injury time."
>There's nothing worst for children to loose on the toss of the coin, been there.
There's a lot worse. Children in wheelchairs for the rest of their lives because of an accident that occurred because of tiredness and overplaying for a start.
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PaulDG |
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gerard_jenkins
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Mon, 25 February 08 11:12 GMT
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In our neck of the woods the semi's and finals add up to 28 mins of rugby, 32 mins short 60mins in ctm. If there is a draw why not play extra time? The ctm allows for this flexibility (IMHO). There's nothing worst for children to loose on the toss of the coin, been there.
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Gerard Jenkins |
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aidluk
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Sat, 23 February 08 21:14 GMT
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Again this is a case of clubs/organisers making up their own rules.
As you say, it is black and white
9.1.3 No extra time is permitted in any match except that added for injury time.
Does this now mean that insurance cover may not be valid as they are not following a regulation and it is not a recommendation?
aidluk
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pauldg
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Sat, 23 February 08 07:41 GMT
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Despite the RFU making it clear that no extra time (except for injury time) can be played in ANY UNDER 18 or below match (and the Laws of the Game making it clear that extra time isn't allowed in U19s), I have received this from the East Midlands alliance regarding their U9s-U12s tournament:
"14. In the event of a draw in the Cup or Plate Finals then “sudden death extra time” will be added (to a maximum of 5 minutes) during which the first team to score will be the winner. In the event of no try being scored at the end of extra time then the trophy will be shared."
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PaulDG |
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