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milligani
- iandmilligan@btinternet.com
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Wed, 07 May 08 11:44 GMT
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Sorry to bring this back to a timescale question again but can some-one please provide an indication of when the revised continuum will be avaliable.
We can debate whether the changes in the Laws are safe etc until the cows come home but it would be good to understand specifically how these are to be managed in the mini / youth variations of the Laws.
The announcement for the ELV trials was quick enough so I assume the leg work has been done and its a matter of presentation.
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Spike |
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osmona
- andrew.osmond@virgin.net
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Wed, 07 May 08 06:33 GMT
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I agree whole heartedly with Tom.
How can collapsing a maul be deemed as safe and, as responsible referees with a conscience for child protection, are we supposed to allow this practice along with other unsafe practices such as bridging?
Kids of continuum age simply do not have the strength in their backs and muscles to control such situations. This also goes for the removal of the requirement for shoulders to be above hips.
Please don't tell me it is safe. Only last weekend did I have to referee a Yorkshire side that had been taught to bridge and persistently tried to take the legs away from one of our players in the maul. Unfortunately on one occasion they succeeded in avoiding my gaze and the predictably we needed intense medical attention.
Please, please, please for the 08/09 continuum
1) No collapsing mauls
2) No bridging
3) Shoulders above hips
Andrew
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rugbytom
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Tue, 06 May 08 16:40 GMT
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Await with interest the revised Continuum inclusive of the ELV's - please please please do not allow defending teams to pull mauls down as it is so dangerous at any level contrary to the IRB alleged research and please please please can we have a draft out urgently for review and comment and digesting well before next season starts.
Please can the CRG liaise through this Forum regarding this mauling issue and any others which are deemed to have a safety impact? - having spoken to a number of other referees about this, irrespective, I too will be instructing teams that any attempt to pull a maul down will be treated as dangerous play because I for one do not want an otherwise avoidable serious injury on my conscience as a result - especially with young kids.
Personally I fear for the senior players too - the rolling maul from a catch and drive is well used in professional rugby (National Leagues and above) and in addition to being technically skillfull also gain considerable momentum which could result in some serious pile ups and injuries.
For the record - this is the only ELV which is a major concern to me - and this on the grounds of safety.
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milligani
- iandmilligan@btinternet.com
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Fri, 02 May 08 17:00 GMT
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>>If just a few kids learn to pull down mauls, then the maul loses any value in mini rugby and there might be a role for the backs after all!
Indeed, however once they are finished with fiddling with the ruck, lineout and scrum there won't be a role for the forwards. That is those lucky enough to have quit the game before getting badly injured in a collapsing maul.
As to the evidence previously mentioned I would be hugely interested in seeing this as I can't remember such obviously useful document being avaliable for consideration alongside the ELV proposals.
Sorry for going off on these topics the thread is concerned with the need for and timescale of production of a new continuum which regardless of what impact the ELVs will have will be needed..........
This message edited on Fri, 02 May 08 by milligani
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Spike |
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dshefras
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Fri, 02 May 08 15:36 GMT
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I for one am very concerned about the new rules that allow for the collapse of a maul. Whilst there may be data from the IRB available that shows that this is not dangerous I very much doubt that this evidence comes from Continuum or even Youth age grade players.
I can see coaches around the country working out ways to collapse mauls and thereby win the turnover. How many players will be injured on both sides by the implementation of this practice?
The current continuum rules do not allow for the collapse of the maul and this has to remain despite the IRBs new ELVs
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pauldg
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Fri, 02 May 08 14:57 GMT
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>The two area of change are firstly the scrum, where the defence has to be 5m back.
I thought it was both sides 5m back?
>The second is the maul, or rather lack of it. Some may take the view that collapsing the maul is dangerous. I don't believe it is and I have IRB reserach to support my view.
If anything this ought to be positive. Because U9s & U10s almost never pass the ball, U9/U10 matches easily become 18 player continuous mauls.
If just a few kids learn to pull down mauls, then the maul loses any value in mini rugby and there might be a role for the backs after all!
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PaulDG |
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gittins
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Fri, 02 May 08 14:18 GMT
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I don't believe this is such a massive change for the continuum.
I have just beed looking at the IRB site. The continuum lineout and kicking laws can remain unchanged and I don't see the role of corner flags being much of an issue.
The two area of change are firstly the scrum, where the defence has to be 5m back. The second is the maul, or rather lack of it. Some may take the view that collapsing the maul is dangerous. I don't believe it is and I have IRB reserach to support my view.
These changes will be in the LoG, which suggests amendments to the continuum will be minimal.
Nick
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milligani
- iandmilligan@btinternet.com
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Fri, 02 May 08 11:42 GMT
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Thanks for the swift reply to this.
From a coaching co-ordinators point of view will we have a revised, amended continuum or a ruling saying to continue as currently within a period of time prior to the start of the season so volunteers will know what they are doing?
I suppose the first question is what is the timescale for the RFU governace process please?
The second is how is this massive potential change in the Laws going to be communicated to clubs (given the fact the removal of the dispensation to teach current Under 8s to tackle was missed or overlooked)?
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Spike |
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Chairman_CRG
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Fri, 02 May 08 11:28 GMT
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The CRG fully understands everyone's concern on how the iRB ELVs will impact on the Continuum and U19 rugby in England. The iRB only made its decision yesterday afternoon and publicised this by a press release. So far no detailed changes to the Laws of the Game approved by the iRB Council has been received by the CRG.
As the Continuum is part of RFU Regulations any changes for 2008-9 requires the approval of the RFU Council. So once the detailed iRB ELVs are received the CRG will examine their impact on the Continuum and as a matter of urgency will make recommendations to the RFU Council.
Meanwhile despite what speculation may appear in the media please bear with us whilst we go through the RFU governance process.
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the whistleblower
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Fri, 02 May 08 11:03 GMT
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RFU thought it could retain the touch at the scrum engagement , when iRB introduced a global scrum engagement requirement. They were soon told they could not - discussions ongoing (allegedly).
The ELVs are also expressed as being global requirements at all levels of rugby; can the RFU duck out of any of them?
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Whistleblower |
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didds
- scrumtime@hotmail.com
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Fri, 02 May 08 10:15 GMT
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"Those dads about to go on their Level 1 or ELRA courses will be told what, exactly?"
Recent feeback I gleaned on these very forums suggested that the Level 1 hardly covers what is or what is not in the continuum...
didds
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pauldg
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Fri, 02 May 08 09:40 GMT
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Anyone heard if the CRG is holding a meeting anytime soon?
When we'll be told what Laws will apply to the U9s who were only told last month that , as U8s, they shouldn't have been taught tackling after all?
Those dads about to go on their Level 1 or ELRA courses will be told what, exactly?
And will it be possible to print the new Continuum from this website or will we have to wait a few months for that?
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PaulDG |
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pauldg
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Thu, 01 May 08 22:04 GMT
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The CRG is going to have to get its collective skates on with the ELVs..
OK, so most don't apply to the Continuum age groups and putting the 5m offside at the scrum into the older age groups shouldn't be that much of an editing exercise.
But I'm not so sure about 8 year olds (U9s) being allowed to deliberately pull down a maul......
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PaulDG |
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