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balones
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Fri, 09 May 08 12:39 GMT
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What we have is a situation where a new Law has been applied and the old one (Law 19) not brought in line with it so we have some contradiction and confusion. I've no doubt in my mind that the intention was to use the corner flag as an indication as to WHERE the ball has gone into touch and not to be an indicator of touch.
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ob
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Fri, 09 May 08 12:19 GMT
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This is the wording of the law as used in the S14:
22.12
If the ball or a player carrying the ball touches a flag or a flag (corner) post at
the intersection of the touch-in-goal lines and the goal lines or at the
intersection of the touch-in-goal lines and the dead ball lines without otherwise
being in touch or touch-in-goal the ball is not out of play unless it is first
grounded against a flag post.
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didds
- scrumtime@hotmail.com
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Fri, 09 May 08 10:46 GMT
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sam - my underdtanding is that the original ELV was to have placed the corner and dead ball flags back away from the actual line interections, similar to half way etc poles.
This would of course have removed the "ON" the touchline debate. However it appears that players, refs etc prefer the flag plles as they are to indicate the corners better ... so some common sense then needs applying if the pole ON the touchline is then deemed NOT to be in touch as you (rightly otherwise) point out.
didds
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sam skennel
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Fri, 09 May 08 10:35 GMT
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As posted on the Leicestershire site, the law definition says that the ball is in touch if it touches anything ON, or beyond, the touchline. The flag pole is on the touchline, how can that be considered as anything other than in touch, at the least?
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Oldmanmartin
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Thu, 08 May 08 18:25 GMT
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Interesting, isn't it? As I understand it, the ball remains in play. If it then grounds beyond or on the touchline or is touched by a player who is grounded beyond or on the touchline it's a lineout or touch-in-goal.
In essence, the corner flag becomes merely a positional marker, not a vertical extension of the touchline, and the ball (or a player) in contact with it is not in touch. So you can demolish a corner flag before touching down and still be awarded a try so long as no part of your body is grounded in touch.
This message edited on Thu, 08 May 08 by Oldmanmartin
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balones
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Thu, 08 May 08 12:59 GMT
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I think you've just asked the same question in the middle of your response.
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the whistleblower
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Wed, 07 May 08 22:34 GMT
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<<I was also wondering what would happen if the corner post was hit on the full and not by a rolling ball. Previously it would have been drop/scrum option but now the post is not regarded as automatically TIG so does it now mean that it is now a lineout? >>
My understanding is that you play on. The ball hitting the post is a nothing. You look to see what happens after that. Ball back in play - play on. Ball into touch - lineout where the ball was kicked. Ball into TIG - option of 22 or a scrum where kicked (would appreciate advice here - ball kicked directly into TIG from, say, the halfway results in the option, rather than a throw-in on half-way, right?). Ball back into play but bounces into touch - lineout on the 5m. Ball back into play but bounces into TIG - the option again.
Of course, it's possible the ball will just go straight on, pushing the flag out of the way. IN such cases, I guess you'd call it TIG, as the ball crossed the plane of touch at the intersection of the goal line, TIG line and touchline.
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Whistleblower |
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ctrainor
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Wed, 07 May 08 21:23 GMT
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another ill judged law, would the ref at the top level go to the screen to see if the ball was in touch or touch in goal after hitting the corner flag?
a decision like that could cost a premier club a lot of money??
of course where I'll be reffing the man and his dog will have a good view and give me the benefit of their decision!!!!!
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Ciaran Trainor |
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balones
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Tue, 06 May 08 17:54 GMT
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OB
I thought it had but wasn't sure. Do you happen to know which one it was?
I was also wondering what would happen if the corner post was hit on the full and not by a rolling ball. Previously it would have been drop/scrum option but now the post is not regarded as automatically TIG so does it now mean that it is now a lineout?
This message edited on Tue, 06 May 08 by balones
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ob
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Tue, 06 May 08 17:26 GMT
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This happened in one of the S14 games. Play on.
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balones
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Tue, 06 May 08 16:21 GMT
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Under ELVs the corner post is no longer touch in goal. If the ball is kicked and it rolls against the post and then it goes into ordinary touch then it is a 5M lineout. If after touching the corner post it goes into touch in goal it is a drop out or scrum back option. But what happens if the ball bounces back into the field of play? Play on? The wording of the ELV suggests that the corner posts have the same standing as goal posts now and under the circumstances I've described we would play on if the ball bounced off the goal posts. Comments?
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