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Oldmanmartin
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Tue, 12 August 08 11:35 GMT
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Oops. For a moment I thought I'd logged into the Big Brother House. Such quality! But surely I'm the oldest f*rt in these forums.
I blame it on the ELVs.
This message edited on Tue, 12 August 08 by Oldmanmartin
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edrainger
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Tue, 12 August 08 09:41 GMT
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even if i was sweeping the streets I could always be confident of being your intelectual superior. However, so long as you have your incontinence pads in place and promise not to dribble on the furniture, as a social service we will have to tolerate your presence. However, if you prefer, and would be willing to leave the contact details of your carer, we can see if there is room for you on the special needs forum. You can find it on ARU.com if you want more info. I believe they have a special section for simplfying the laws of the games to accommodate people in your unfortunate state.
This message edited on Tue, 12 August 08 by edrainger
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mkking(2)
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Tue, 12 August 08 03:11 GMT
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Your so right Ed, are we interrupting you in the middle of a Brain operation? Or are you still the Barnstaple Parking Officer?
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edrainger
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Tue, 05 August 08 14:01 GMT
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well now that NZ have lost to aus away from home and had the favour returned, with the scores in both matches not dissimilar to those in the NZ Eng tests, perhaps we have a more realsistic perspective on the qulaity of those performances by eng. In the light of the 3N eng were no worse away from home than either of the 2 named above.
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mkking(2)
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Thu, 31 July 08 01:58 GMT
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Xy how the hell are ya?
Good to see your getting on with your life. Mate, they said nasty things about Michael Jackson too and now him and you are free men and have paid your debt to society.
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kiwi watcher
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Fri, 20 June 08 10:07 GMT
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Our Neemia Tialata who is marking Stevens, is talking it up, him and Stevens having a few words in media all week, so..... this will be an awesome encounter with both of these pretenders wanting to make the step to first choice selections, like Stevens Tialata has been understudy for a while, behind World class props, and have their doubters, will be a great battle
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edrainger
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Fri, 20 June 08 09:50 GMT
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for gods sake, i was going to hold my tounge untill after the next game, but come on guys get real. A more or less scratch team with most of the combinations unused to each other and many palyers with a hand full of international games under their belts (if that). It will be two years (20 games) before eng beggin to look competative against the best which is what NZ are. Lets select our best prospects (and stevens is definatley one of those) and show some faith and patience. We are in this position because of 5 years of dithering and its going to take a substantial amount of time to get a novice squad up to speed. I would agree that refreshing the coaching team might not be a bad idea though.
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gkbradley
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Fri, 20 June 08 07:02 GMT
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More excuses. I think he's had enough game time already, after all he also plays for Bath. I'm coming to the conclusion that LH rather than TH is his position and we should bring on another contender at TH.
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gkb |
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Oldmanmartin
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Thu, 19 June 08 21:39 GMT
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I agree, Simon. He's got all the attributes and we don't have many alternatives. Give him a decent run as a starter and see if he settles.
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simoncross
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Thu, 19 June 08 13:10 GMT
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Most of his caps will be last 20 mins. He'll be scrummaging against the tired first-choice or the substitute 2nd-choice like himself. He's come on, but he's got a way to go. I think he'll get there quite soon if he plays throughout 6N.
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bobtolly
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Thu, 19 June 08 12:38 GMT
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GKB.... That's the problem..I can't think of many games that he has played. there has been Vickery and Julian White who have been holding this position. Stevens has been picking up crumbs. I think he has what it takes. He needs gametime.
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gkbradley
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Wed, 18 June 08 19:18 GMT
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I think a lot of us have been saying that in different ways or another for some time now.
Another key difference I note is that you can take any Kiwi, almost off the street, and put a black jersey on him and he will play out of his skin and look like he's been in the team for ages.
England however take a very good GP player put a white shirt on him whereas he then becomes somewhat of a headless chicken and excuses are then made about the need for more experience, building combinations blah, blah, blah, more excuses, blah, blah, blah.
Which brings me on to Stevens Bob. Just how many more games do you give him to raise his game to international level? To my certain knowledge he has been around the England squad for some time now.
And in answer to the Varndell (and probably Ojo) question. Varndell's defence has improved to some extent but he's still a 'flapper'. That is often he neither tackles the ball carrier or tracks the support runner until it's too late but flaps around somewhere between.
This message edited on Wed, 18 June 08 by gkbradley
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gkb |
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alforth
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Wed, 18 June 08 18:13 GMT
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I think it's definately to do with coaching. If we don't believe coaching can make the difference look at Wales.
A lady aquaintance of mine here in Belfast (much younger than me) and who does not come of a rugby tradition but has taken to watching games in the past few years and has, I think, become a closet England supporter, said to me after one of the 6N matches that she had figured out what we are doing wrong.
I quote:
" when one of the wee men is running with the ball and he looks round for sombody to throw it to, there is nobody there and the other team get him and take away the ball. Another thing, when they kick the ball why don't they kick it to somewhere where the other side's players aren't. And when the big boys are messing about on the ground to get the ball why do they take so long because the other side's men all run back and get in a line so we can't get anywhere, also when they are all trotting along with the ball none of them seem to know who has the ball and they get in a muddle. This wouldn't have happened if Martin [Johnson] was still there, is there noboby teaching them?"
I Translate:
1) Poor support running resulting in ball carriers becomong isolated.
2) Poor tactical kicking, not into space or over the heads of defenders.
3) Too slow recycling the ball from rucks allowing the opposition defence to realign.
4) Unstructured mauls going nowhere.
5) Poor leadership on the field [Alternative translation:- I love Martin Johnson]
6) Who the hell is coaching this?
Out of the mouths of babes.
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bobtolly
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Wed, 18 June 08 15:01 GMT
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I read somewhere that the Abs always consider that an england match will always be a bruising and physical affair. That is without doubt, true. what hacks me off is that the talent we have seem unable to score tries or show any initiative and flair at international level. these same players show great promise in the club game. In my own humble oppinion, it has to be th coaching.
also, stop knocking Stevens, he needs experience at international level. He has shown with Bath what he's capable of and experience will bring confidence. I am sorry not to have seen Hartley or Kennedy given a go this saturday.
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kiwi watcher
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Wed, 18 June 08 12:56 GMT
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yep Old Martin, spot on, Tana has six ex AB's at toulon with Jerry Collins and prob Carter signing next week after Eng game
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DavW$b2#
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Wed, 18 June 08 11:04 GMT
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Should be a good solid defense in midfield if noon and flood can repeat there ireland performance new zealand should not get through.
The only problem i see is varndell o.k he is a top try scorer but would he have stopped ma nonu or just try and shake his hand like hodgson, HAS HE BUTCHED UP.
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Oldmanmartin
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Wed, 18 June 08 10:21 GMT
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It’s tough to be an AB – you may be a national god but the AB coach has dictatorial powers over whether or when you play in Provincial or S14 matches, a good third of your away international or S14 games are a continent away, with lengthy absences from home and family. This, not money, probably explains why increasing numbers are opting out to play for European clubs where away matches rarely require more than a one-night absence. It’ll be interesting to see how things develop over the next couple of years – will the exodus strengthen, or will the NZRU lighten up?
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kiwi watcher
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Tue, 17 June 08 00:03 GMT
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I think for us the AB's and not the clubs dictate the pay as well, so a S14 player on 100K NZ$ would at least double that being an AB. and a tour in November is just as prestegious, determination as July for us. You will rearly see a downtime AB team come in November, they will be pumped. Not having the club commitments is probably good...mostly (when in comes to international footy)
Only our AB's get comparible pay to your top club players, that why the players that missed the AB's are huge targets.
Mose Tuial'i, Casey Laulala, Piri, Weepu etc, etc, etc
This message edited on Tue, 17 June 08 by kiwi watcher
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kiwi watcher
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Mon, 16 June 08 23:55 GMT
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Haha GK, I think your RWC call is right, we need a good 10 - 20 weeks thinking its RWC game, then we will have enough time to really stuff the whole thing up good and proper.
Alforth and Steve
I spose the kid amd ball thing here is huge, like you goys prob start with a soccer or cricket ball, we have a rugby ball. Children start to show real skill with backwards passing, one handed offloads at a young age and are stepping and tackling young too.
Teaching in South auckland (I know I have the worst grammer in the world, Im a special needs teacher and have my own special needs) 98% of the students in South Auckland are polynesian (Maori and Pasific Island), the skills the size of some kids, the hits are huge.
In Auckland the population base is getting nearer to 1/3 Asian(including Indian), 1/3 Euro and 1/3 Polynesian.
With the PI boys having rugby and league in their blood.
I still wish we could play more often, England wont be down for long, I think unlike 2004, England probably have the depth and with the 6 Nations being a close fought affair the bounce of the ball could see England at the top again next year. (prob bounce of the ball suiting others this year) Where Eng have a better team than 3rd or forth this year. (yes we believe it too)
Actually didnt like Sheridan going off like that, and with the world of expectation on his shoulders too.
He will be a diff man in England when we play him again at the end of year tour.
This message edited on Mon, 16 June 08 by kiwi watcher
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gkbradley
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Mon, 16 June 08 21:50 GMT
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Not entirely surprised myself, quite a bit I expected there, like:-
Sheridan has yet to live up to his hype against anyone other than the Aussie front row.
Mears and Stevens unable to bring their club form to England. Especially disappointed with Stevens as finally he had the chance to cement his position but didn't. We need to start looking for a new TH and soon since Vickery is past it and White is retired.
Second row. Good in the lineout but not much else. Not enough beef there. Borthwick is about 4/5th choice lock so make sure he plays by making him captain, great. Kay has to start next week.
Back row. The only real positive in the match. Competed well at the breakdown but did little with the ball subsequently.
Wrigglesworth is only holding the fort until either Ellis is fully fit or Care develops.
Hodgson folded as expected. With Danny and Johnny out we should have taken Goode. Not the most dynamic or consistent FH in the world I admit but handles the pressure and can tackle. Will have to try Flood there next week though I think.
Centres still a major problem. Trundle must be finished surely so we have no real option but Tait, or Noon if all we are going to do is defend. Keep Barclay at 12.
Sterttle very keen but ineffective. Ojo two good tries but little else. Looks suspect in defence also.
Full back. If we play Tait at 13 are there any other options if Lewsey is in forced retirement?
If we make the changes as above we might keep it under 15 points deficit next week, if not could be even more embarassing.
Best chance might be to hypnotise the AB's into believing it's a RWC final match?
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gkb |
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alforth
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Mon, 16 June 08 20:18 GMT
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Steve, you are dead right. One of the problems with English rugby is the lack of schools that play the game from an early age. I remember a kiwi friend from my seagoing days telling me that in NZ they play in primary school in bare feet. The situation has probably been made worse with the demise of the rugby playing grammar schools (let's not go there). It is no accident that some 70% of the last WC team were ex public school.
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steve johnson
- sehjohnson@hotmail.com
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Mon, 16 June 08 18:13 GMT
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Kiwi watcher
I don't think you need worry about rugby turning into a 4 year cycle, there are great events between RWC, not least the Tri-Nations coming up soon. What I meant was that apart from the RWC, when all teams should be level in terms or preparation, rest, and all the other aspects that go to making a team the best it can be, there are few other times when one hemisphere or the other will not be at their lowest point, NH teams in May and June, and SH teams in October/November. The players should probably be resting after a 10 month year (including RWC), but money demands they are stretched out again and again.....
alforth; I think there is a different mind-set as far as rugby skills are concerned. When I was in NZ a while ago, I still saw 7 and 8 year olds in the parks in Christchurch playing rugby 3 vs 3 or so, and you could hear them "Carter breaks - he's away, he dummies, he sends a cut pass out to Sivivatu - who scores in the corner!" Now, I've been back in England for about 2 months now, and I haven't even seen any kids running round around here, and the weather has been great for rugby hasn't it?
My point is that if the youngsters aren't playing around like that for fun, they never will reach the same level of game skills as the AB's.
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billytay
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Mon, 16 June 08 16:30 GMT
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Stevens is an acceptable scrummager and has definitely improved in this area with a lot more to offer around the park particularly as a ball carrier .To be fair Vickery isn't the worlds greatest scrummager either but has done OK!.
I think a bigger question mark is over Sheridan who only seems to dominate against the known weak scrummaging teams such as Oz and Wales if he comes up against a strong guy with nouse he struggles.
Fullback it was worth trying Brown and we've really got to give him another crack I personally think Abendanon looks a better bet but who knows until you throw them in the deep end .
Hodgson is a talented Flyhalf but hes not an international one I wouuld pick Flood at outside half and Barkley and Noon at centre they worked well as a pair about three years ago until injury interrupted them developing as a pairing .
Wings we haven't got much option but to stick with Ojo and Strettle and hope we can give them some ball I would have Tait on the bench to cover wing or outside centre and possibly fullback .
It was always going to be a tough ask particularly after we went down their with so many first choice backs not travelling .
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simoncross
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Mon, 16 June 08 13:33 GMT
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Winkler was right in the opinions, if not the tone.
Stevens isn't the finished article as a scrummager, and would do well to have some sessions with Jeff Probyn.
Brown whilst honest isn't a Test player. The experiment should be quietly dropped and thought given to playing Tait there permanently, with Noon at 13. The 15 in the Saxons is really a 9, and everyone seems to think that Lewsey is gone for good. Shame.
Hodgson is talented, but his ring falls out when the pressure comes on. His defense is dire, and we should now have seen the back of him.
The back row were good and will only improve - the only real plus point from the game, other than the pack performance as a whole in the first quarter-hour.
This message edited on Mon, 16 June 08 by simoncross
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Oldmanmartin
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Mon, 16 June 08 12:55 GMT
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Not embarrassing, just disappointing.
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