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steve johnson
- sehjohnson@hotmail.com
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Thu, 31 July 08 15:50 GMT
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In the Super 14, at least 5 New Zealanders and South African and 4 Australian players in EVERY POSITION are getting at least 13 top class games with other players from the same nationality. This gives them a way of playing a) the game, and b) with mates who are likely to be in the same international team. So, there is a great deal of knowledge about how a certain team mate is going to play at any given time. It seems to me that the NH players are all over the place, certainly not getting 13 games a year all together, and they seem to spend the vast majority of their preparation time introducing themselves to each other. So, whereas we rarely see any disastrous decision making in the SH teams, there seems to be a lack of interdependent know-how in the NH teams. OK, SH teams fail from time to time, and we remember those occasions forever, because they happen so rarely.
I don't think that individually there is much to separate the players' capacities, they can pretty much run as fast as each other, weigh about the same, and (with exceptions) have almost the same skill levels. However, melding these qualities together only happens occasionally here, and we celebrate them forever (1971, 1974 Lions), rather than moving onward and upward.
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SteveJinJapan |
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nicknell
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Thu, 31 July 08 07:43 GMT
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Show me the shirt or b*gger off.
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mkking(2)
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Thu, 31 July 08 02:05 GMT
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This is contentious? I think it clearly and succinctly demonstrates the real mental divide between North and South.
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There can be only one. |
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bobtolly
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Wed, 25 June 08 12:51 GMT
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Can't argue with much of that. We aren't in the same league when it comes to back play. Mind you, I don't think the GP is that bad. There were some cracking games with exciting back play on display.
England have the flair and talent but for some reason the national team do not employ the right coaches for the modern game.
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alphaq
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Wed, 25 June 08 12:39 GMT
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I wouldn't disagree with that, other than to question the slightly smug assumptions about S14 (and S12 before it). It was conventient for the NH media to deride those competitions, and, incredibly, the Tri-Nations, ludicrously climing that the SH envied the second division 6N tournament. Ridiculous media hype.
The fact is the S14 brings together the best rugby players from three strong nations, two of which have RU as their national sport. Hardly a weak starting point. The available talent is concentrated in the franchises year in year out. Contrast that with the NH's pale imitation, the HC, in which, in England's case at least, the top players don't necessarily play each year.
I don't agree that S14 has emasculated forward play. Only a half-wit would argue that having seen the NH teams pretty much brushed aside down under. NZ clearly had the better scrummaging pack versus England. Of course, there is a much better balance in SH rugby with skillful and powerful backs in abundance. The NH is once again way behind in terms of overall skills. Based again upon the NZ experience, you would also say they are well behind physically. It doesn't take a genius to work out that all of this may have something to do with the respective coaching set ups. NZ seem to turn out young backs with all the basic attributes at will. Only Cirpiani, in the current England set up, looks like a he could be a Kiwi back.
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edrainger
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Wed, 25 June 08 12:32 GMT
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not a bad analysis. However, I would say that there has been a lot of excelent back play in GP.
The problem at eng level is that we have been/are playing new combinations virtually every game for the last 2 years and many of these players have not played together hardly at all.
It is my contention that we must choose a settled back line who, injury willing, will strat the next 20 test matches. Also we must utilsie the bench to give the second choice players at least 25-30 mins every other game. This is the only way I can see the eng backs coming togetehr and demonstrating their undoubted individual flair as a unified group. This done, i believe they will be the match of any back line world wide and allied with our first choice pack and playing under the real laws and not the modified cr@p that australia are trying to foist on the game, we would be a sh1t scarry prospect.
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philip poulter
- philippoulter1@btinternet.com
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Wed, 25 June 08 11:49 GMT
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I havent been around for a while so have missed a lot of the comments and banter on here.
I'm sure this will get all sorts of "rubbish" claims but I think its time for a dispassionate view of what happened on the NZ tour
I, like countless others have derided the "super 12 \ 14" as not real tough rugby
Powder Puff \ 15 a side 7's\ touch rugby, they have all been spouted
BUT my personal view is that the one thing that the super series has done is greatly enhance back play
Without a forward dominated game the backs coaches have had to come up with ways of exploiting quick ball from virtually every phase be it set piece or the loose
I see great attacking lines and angles being run, superb passing in front of the man so he takes the ball at speed ( Oh England!), teams that know how to exploit the smallest of overlaps etc etc etc.
Our belief in the NH was that once these teams came up against a hard, strong set of forwards then they wouldnt win any ball to release all this fancy back play
What I sensed NZ have done is to combine a good, hard set of forwards who can at least hold their own against any NH pack AND combine that with all the back play that the super series has produced
That is a very strong combination
I am reminded ( painfully)of the late 70's Welsh teams who had the same mix
Am I being unkind if I say that the Guin Prem simply doesnt produce that level of backs play but is a much more forward dominated.
England won the world cup with a very strong pack and a kicker who couldnt miss
Yes we scored tries but they were from individual brilliance--Jason Robinson --rather that a truly good set of backs
In my view the new laws will only expose the NH teams even more if we dont do something to revamp all our thinking on back play and aspire to score from set piece as well as countless phases of broken play
OK Guys--vent your wrath
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