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didds
- scrumtime@hotmail.com
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Sat, 27 September 08 17:47 GMT
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the point i was making is that club accounts need bear no relation to claimed membership.
if a club wishes to claim it has a membership of 1000 that doesn't mean to say there are 1000 x £50 (or whatever) in the accounts to "prove" it.
(and the point then being 900 such "members" could be totally fictitious).
didds
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the whistleblower
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Fri, 26 September 08 10:33 GMT
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<<what if your club offers free subscription?>> At my own club, such generosity (Life presidents etc) is in the form of a class of membership that confers no ticket rights. If you wants the tickets, you pays the subs. Especailly as life presidents tend to wander around in tailored blazers wearling the silk version of the club tie!
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Whistleblower |
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ob
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Thu, 25 September 08 19:07 GMT
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At one time I remember that the club used to apply for about 3 times the number of tickets they needed (and pay the money). The RFU would cut that back to approximately our requirements and refund as appropriate.
When they introduced the new system based on teams insured, it affected a lot of clubs with a purely social membership that had joined (Vice-Presidents) just to get tickets.
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Peterj#5E$
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Thu, 25 September 08 19:07 GMT
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At one time I remember that the club used to apply for about 3 times the number of tickets they needed (and pay the money). The RFU would cut that back to approximately our requirements and refund as appropriate.
When they introduced the new system based on teams insured, it affected a lot of clubs with a purely social membership that had joined (Vice-Presidents) just to get tickets.
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didds
- scrumtime@hotmail.com
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Thu, 25 September 08 18:07 GMT
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what if your club offers free subscription?
didds
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ob
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Tue, 23 September 08 12:02 GMT
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In the past it depended on how many regular teams you paid insurance for.
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Peterj#5E$
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Tue, 23 September 08 12:02 GMT
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In the past it depended on how many regular teams you paid insurance for.
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the whistleblower
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Tue, 23 September 08 10:43 GMT
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The obvious check on all this would be membership numbers vs membership subscriptions. it's easy to register 500 fictitious members; less easy to find the £30,000 their membership is supposed to have contributed to your accounts!
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Whistleblower |
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the whistleblower
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Tue, 23 September 08 10:43 GMT
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Ruddy useless ruddy system - why do we all bother?
Double post due to rubbish IT management. Why are people still in their jobs, drawing salaries they manifestly don't earn? :-( [Angry of Gerrards Cross]
This message edited on Tue, 23 September 08 by the whistleblower
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Whistleblower |
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didds
- scrumtime@hotmail.com
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Tue, 23 September 08 08:56 GMT
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Such checks seem historically to have been an off the record email to the club officials asking them how many they have registered!!
That aside... it is not IME unusual for clubs to have many times the actual players regsistered, if only because there is no onus on clubs to deregister players that "don;t come back" but then also don;t register elsewhere.
It wouldn;t surprise me if clubs often have three or four times their active player numbers on their official RFU roll... though of course if this was typical across all clubs it would at least still retain the relative position.
didds
This message edited on Tue, 23 September 08 by didds
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paulmccann
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Mon, 22 September 08 13:52 GMT
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The details on Rugbyfirst are supposed to be verified by the local RDO I think, who should have an idea of how many members a club has based on the number of teams they run.
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didds
- scrumtime@hotmail.com
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Mon, 22 September 08 12:47 GMT
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so clubs pay the RFU anything based on membership figures at any time? e.g. If a club has 200 members does it have to pay anybody/the RFU 200 tijmes some set fee? For whatever?
If not... what's to stop a club "registering" hundreds of fictitious members?
didds
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paulmccann
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Mon, 22 September 08 12:14 GMT
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Whistleblower -
I'm the club secretary so if we had lost tickets due to a breach of the ticketing rules I'd be the one to know about it!
Apparently it is down to a new points system, which gives points for each adult and junior side and points per member registered on rugbyfirst. Although we run four senior sides we don't have a junior section so miss out on all those teams and the kids, parents etc who would be signed up as members.
We had thought that the increase in capacity at Twickenham would mean we got more tickets, not less. Not the way it works it seems.
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the whistleblower
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Fri, 19 September 08 10:37 GMT
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Some clubs have their allocations cut by 50% for breaking the rules on selling-on tickets. Perhaps yours is one? Wouldn't be surprising if the Committee were not publicising such an embarrassing fact.
This document: http://www.rfu.com/pdfs/tickets/Twickenham-facts-figures-tick eting 2008.pdf provides the facts on allocation. For the R BS 6N last year, member clubs had a first allocation of ove r 40% of the available tickets. The next largest group wi th ticket rights were debenture holders - 18.8%, and the y pa id a lot for the privilege. The visiting union were giv en 7% to distribute - I wonder what happens to those? " T wickenham Experience", a commercial interest, obtained 6. 8 %, and the next largest interest was the clubs' 2nd allocat ion at 5%. Thereafter, the percentages are trivial.
< br>
In total, the commercial allocation (inc. Twicke nha m Experience) was 10% of available tickets. 88% went t o c lubs, vi siting unions, schools, debenture holders, blazere d alekadoos, local residents, past internationals and vario us RFU staffers.
I recall a news article entitl ed RFU gets tough on Black Market Tickets, which identifies the malefactors. Two Bristol clubs had their entire alooc ation suspended for three years. If you search RFU.com for "black market" or "Ticket Allocation", you should find it - assuming the search function is working. I just tried it without success, so searched the site for the word "rugby" . It was not found [sigh].
This message edited on Fri, 19 September 08 by the whistleblower
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Whistleblower |
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steve manley
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Fri, 19 September 08 09:59 GMT
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The general consensus is that ticket alloction is determined by the size of member clubs membership if this is the case then it must be assumed by the r.f.u. ticket office that my clubs membership has diminished by half,which it has not, having had our ticket allocation decreased by over 50%.Information gathered from other clubs websites it appears other clubs have a large increase on their ticket allocation. Do any other member club agree it is about time a list is posted on the r.f.u. website showing just how many tickets are allocated to each and every member club?
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fredpell
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Fri, 18 July 08 13:45 GMT
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For the three years that I have been secretary we have received an initial allocation of around 30 tickets and possible extras taking it up to around 35 for some games. Sometimes we have taken them all, sometimes we have returned a few. Our allocation has now been advised as a guaranteed 28 and for the Autumn we have received 32. Having transferred from the round ball game after twenty years as referees society and league fixtures secretary (amongst other posts) I find the RFU allocation system to be quite fair. It took me quite by surprise when in my son's first season at the club we were asked if we wanted to apply for tickets and then got two for the Ireland game. Unheard of in my footballing time!
I know of at least one club that sells all of their allocation on to a licensed hospitality broker to keep themselves solvent. Those who do not get news of an allocation at their club need to ask the secretary what happens.
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weakone
- slfaithfull@aol.com
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Thu, 17 July 08 20:56 GMT
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WB
Our club over the years get between 6 and 10 per international. These are ballotted and the lucky guys get to go. I have always been unlucky! (justice, I presume) But it is sad that this is all we get, especially when you consider the amount that are allocated to hospitiality.
I will not harp on. I except it is poor. I believe our club handles the situation fairly. But the organisers (The RFU) don't!
But all the staff at RFU HQ will ignore my comments (and will not even care) and allow the abuse of the system to continue.
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the whistleblower
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Thu, 17 July 08 10:07 GMT
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Weakone, my club has traditionally had an allocation of perhaps 60-70 6N Twickenham tickets. These are allocated to members by requiring candidates to attend an allocation meeting, armed with their cheque books. Candidates can choose to be awarded two tickets - either sitting together for any one game, or singletons to separate games. Raffle tickets representing the available 6N tickets are pinned to a board, and winners make their choice of game. Early winners usually grab the France game and as the selection dwindles, the last hopefuls end up with tickets to the Italy match or, God help us, the Scotland game.
I have always understood that the size of the pool of available tickets is determined by the size of the paid-up club membership. I've no idea what proportion of the 80,000 Twickenham capacity gets distributed in this way, nor whether geographical factors are taken into account (e.g. would Jersey RFC get allocated the same number of tickets as a club of equal membership in Kingston, for example).
Can anyone fill in the blanks?
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Whistleblower |
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didds
- scrumtime@hotmail.com
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Thu, 17 July 08 08:38 GMT
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WB -I can only assume that they must be going to corporate hospitality mobs. Or chums of the RFU I suppose. Or... the premiership clubs?
Where else could they be going if numbers are being reduced to the grass roots generally?
didds
This message edited on Thu, 17 July 08 by didds
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weakone
- slfaithfull@aol.com
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Wed, 16 July 08 21:35 GMT
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I have been at my club since the 70's and I have never had a ticket yet!
I think it is a sham, has always been, will always be, and is as corrupt as is possible. Not our club, but the system.
I use to be full of envy and hatred, I guess now, I am just cynical.
I treat my lads to Heinenken Cup games because like me, they assume the international games are for the guys who know someone!
It is tragic and demonstrates that noone is answerable to how they are allocated
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the whistleblower
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Wed, 16 July 08 14:53 GMT
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So who's getting all the tickets? I hope they're not going to corporate events organisers.
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Whistleblower |
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simonthomas
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Tue, 15 July 08 11:11 GMT
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yes - our County CB allocation has been cut by 15% !
Waiting to see what we have got as a Referee Society allocation - been cut in last two years.
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milligani
- iandmilligan@btinternet.com
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Tue, 15 July 08 10:18 GMT
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We were told of our new allocation last night at a club meeting. It has gone up by a couple of tickets but we are still very much in single figures. We have a decent sized mini and youth section and run girls rugby too.
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paulmccann
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Tue, 15 July 08 10:06 GMT
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Has anyone else received notification of their new minimum allocation?
Ours has been cut by nearly 50%.
It would be interesting to learn what's happened to other clubs, any other winners or losers?
We're only a small club with no junior section to boost our membership numbers and this reduction is going to hit us very hard.
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